July 28, 2015
Sam Cook is still in Spain and today he is joined by Grace Musgrove of the Wollongong Wizards. Grace discusses coming up in the sport and almost missing the opportunity to join the Wizards out of high school. They also talk about handling race day and Grace’s growing popularity. She explains what it’s like to be surrounded by successful triathletes and how beneficial the experience is on today’s episode of the Triathlon Research Radio.
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Hello Triathlon Research listener, welcome back to another episode of Triathlon Research Radio, I’m Sam Cook, the founder of Triathlon Research and your host today. And if you haven’t heard the last few podcasts, I’m sitting here in Basque Country, Spain enjoying watching a professional triathlon squad, the soon to be world famous Wollongong Wizards, actually, already are world famous in lot of ways. But what I’d like to do is help them get a lot more of their insights and tips out to the world. And I’m sitting here with Grace Musgrove from Australia and she is one of the female Wollongong Wizards. We just had an episode with Barbara Riveros and has a very interesting background and story as all Australians do, I find Australians fascinating. And so we’re just gonna get right in to it and find out what it’s like to be a Wizard, what it’s like to be a professional female triathlete and just see what we can discover about the pro lifestyle, so Welcome Grace.
Alright Grace, so how did you get in to becoming a professional triathlete, what on earth possessed you to pursue this lifestyle?
It’s actually a little bit of a funny story. So I started out as a swimmer and then I sort of found myself moving in to running off swimming fitness and every year in Australia, actually on Australia Day, they have a ???[0:02:09] and all of Jamie’s athletes at the time there and I just raced and I actually raced quite well and so he came up to me and he said I want you to finish your last year of high school and then once you’ve done that, come and try triathlon but actually in my last year of high school, I had a bit of success in running and I was going to be a runner, professional runner, so actually finished school and said to Jamie, oh, I don’t wanna do this. Then I went to uni and I was just running and I saw photos of ???[0:02:41] and Natalie which are 2 other Wizards and they were in the Basque Country and I just went to Jamie and I said is that opportunity still up for grabs because I’d love to have a go? And then by November that year, I was at their first camp in ???[0:02:57] Australia so that’s where it started.
So you passed up the opportunity to be a Wizard and Jamie gave you a reprieve when you figured out the air of your ways, right?
Yeah, well, at the time, there was no Wizards but I just saw the lifestyle, I just thought it was an amazing opportunity so…
And when was this?
This was June 2011.
So when was this that you were first approached by Jamie again?
It was the beginning of 2010 and then by the end of 2011, I was in the squad.
End of 2011. And at that time, who else was on the Wizards? You mentioned a couple of the other girls who are on the squad.
Yeah, it was mainly just an Australian based squad so there was Natalie Thompson, Charlotte, Ron Bailey and Aaron and a few other boys and also Ryan’s youngest sister actually who stopped triathlon a few years ago so I just saw them and, yeah, I was so jealous.
And why do you think, just stepping back, why do you think you were drawn to sports in the first place as a girl growing up, what drove you in to endurance sports? Coz endurance athletes, the old saying is what are you running from? Why do you get so much enjoyment out of endurance sports?
It’s actually kind of interesting I guess. I grow up at a primary boys sporting school so my dad was, he moved up from a boarding master, he’s now actually the headmaster there and he’s been there for 26 years so my whole life, I grew up on, he was coming in the country about 172 acres and I just had, there’s just boys around me, I had 2 older brothers and it was just a constant like trying to keep up sort of thing.
You didn’t have any girls to play with out there, huh?
Oh, I think there was one or two other girls that lived on the camp back on the school site but other than that, it was just few hundred boys.
So this is, what ages were they?
So the boarders were probably from 8 – 12 years old.
8 – 12 years old…
Yeah, so when I was growing up, it was perfect for me.
And how old are your brothers compared to you?
One is 2 years older than me and one is 4 years older than me.
Wow, so you just, I think that my little sister with 4 older brothers had an interesting experience for it sound like you had about 170 of them, right?
Yeah, lots of valentines presents.
Oh no. So you’re a little sister trying to keep up and what kind of torture did your brothers make you do that made you join endurance sports?
I don’t think it was torture, I think I just, I couldn’t keep up with them, I just think I want to have playmates. So we go around in holidays and I actually, we’d always, coz my parents are very athletic so growing up, dad cycled and mom actually did triathlons as well and they both keep swimming and cycling together and mom’s actually planning on racing Chicago World Champs at the end of the year in the age group so I think just all our holidays were athletic holidays sort of thing we go do. I end up north away some holidays at the beach and I think that’s just where I came from.
So really runs in the family and it sounds like a great connecting experience for you and your parents and brothers?
Yeah, definitely. So I’ve been out riding with one of my brothers and my parents and we can just go out for 60k bike ride.
And the bikes, when I was in triathlon, I would find the bike to be the most special place because it’s a great social experience. You can talk with someone and you’re not interrupted by anything aside from traffic and if you’re by yourself, it’s probably the best thinking that you’ll ever get on the bike and Einstein used to say that, or I think he once said that where do you get all your best ideas and he said on the bike so…
Yeah, I had some wacky ideas on the bike I think.
Yeah and not all of them are worth publishing or talking about though but at least you can work through them. So that’s interesting, what do you prefer, riding alone or riding with a group?
I like a mixture. Yeah, last year, I did a fair bit of riding by myself. I think for enjoyment, riding by yourself can sometimes be really great but when you want to be competitive, the group environments, you can’t really beat it.
So when you really wanna get better, riding with other people is the way to do it?
Yeah, I think so.
And also in ITU, riding with a group is pretty important if you know how to do it, right?
Yeah, well, I spent a few months just riding by myself and then I get back in the bunch just like not very long, maybe first hour of the ride, I’d be nervous about sitting on different whales…
So you’ve been travelling and I think they took you off for your birthday last night here in Spain, it was very interesting to see how you guys, just the Spanish culture and the ???[0:08:20] and everything was great but, so, well, how old are you now?
23. So for last 5 years since you’re 18 or 19, you’ve been traveling as a Wizard or as a professional triathlete?
Yeah. So my first year I was biking off to come ???[0:08:39] so in 2012 and then 2013 I came over again. Last year was a bit, yeah, wasn’t as exciting, I had a few injuries so I was actually, went back in Australia where everyone is ???[0:08:51] so this is my 3rd year in Basque Country.
And you’re spending what are typically uni years, university years in Australia doing this. Do you ever feel like you’re missing out or do your friends that feel like they’re missing out by watching you?
I think sometimes, because I did 1 year at uni so I actually have a group of friends that I met that year and we’re still keeping contacts so when I go back home, they talk about uni and one is doing medicine, one is becoming a paramedic and the other one is a physio and I’m so interested in what they do like how they, their lives go but they can’t get over with the opportunities I get and that’s sort of when I realized like it’s pretty special what I’m doing so yeah, I don’t really think I’m missing out when I think of this…
And unis always gonna be there, right?
You might be the oldest student in the classroom by the time you start it but it’s still always good and I had the opportunity to go back to graduate school in my early 30s in the army and it was great and it was good to be back in a university setting so I don’t think it’s ever too late to go back and get your education. But you’re only gonna be this age and this athletic ability once.
And looking at the last 3 years or 4 years doing this, what’s been some of the best moments of doing this, is it the competition, the training, the social, the camaraderie, what do you love about this, what keeps you doing it?
To be honest, I think it’s just everything. So we have, I think it’s really good how we can go in to a session, we can, I wouldn’t say get angry at each other but we get quite aggressive and we’re very competitive but then…
Australians aren’t very nice to each other in general, they’ve got horrible nicknames for each other and they’re pretty brutal so…
But then we step away from the session and we can go out for dinner and we can have a laugh about things and even on the easy sessions, everyone can sort of relax so I think it’s just a mixture of everything.
And what’s, tell me one of the best stories or funniest things that you can remember doing this or just the most exciting moments.
And it’s hard because I know probably all the stories you can’t tell but…
Yeah. As far as, most of them at the time I might have petrified, I’m angry so for example in Australia, sometimes when we do our water once a week, the waves are huge one day and the boys love it and the girls get at it and we can’t, for the warm up, we can’t even get at the back and we’re all looking at each other. I come in with Charlotte and Jamie psyches, you can’t do it then go home and we just looked to each other so we’re like, hey, we got to do this, we’ve got to get out of the back. We got out the back, came back in then we said start the sessions so we had to go out again and we’re at the back and all the girls were just in tears coz they’re so scared at the waves and we just, we ended up about 50 meters down the beach and I don’t know, moments like that, you sort of, I don’t know, you just always remember them and I do remember being petrified but now I can look back on it and laugh and it’s probably made me bit a better person, stronger person.
So dealing with fear whether it’s riding in the pack or… the waves is, now, one of the funny things I found about fear in my life is once you’ve dealt with extreme cases of fear, the rest of your life seems a little bit boring so it’s a bit addictive, isn’t it?
Yeah, definitely, the thrill is just, we like to go and jump off things and we find bridges and wanna jump off and all faith of course, but it’s just silly things like that like there’s an old ???[0:12:47] back in Wollongong and we go every Monday afternoon for a while coz it was our easy day and we take someone new and try and get him to jump off the ???[0:13:05] and it was, yeah, just crazy things like that.
So just chasing extreme adrenaline is, and I think that’s probably, endorphins are the hormones that are, when you’re in an adrenaline situation, that’s the most addictive drug in the world. Forget alcohol or anything else, that’s the most addictive.
And what about racing, what, how do you feel on race day? Do you feel excited, do you love race day, do you dread it sometimes or are you nervous and how do you deal with that?
Yeah, that’s a really hard question because sometimes, you’re going to a race and I got in to a race super confident and loved every minute of it, sometimes I’ve been so nervous before the race, got in to the race and felt super confident and sometimes you’re really excited but you get there and sort of, oh, like I don’t know how this gonna go. Yeah, it’s such a mixture of feelings that you sort of got to learn how to deal with everything you feel on the spot and try and switch that to something positive.
Do you feel that that’s helped you with all the emotions in your life or being overly exposed to fear and adrenaline, does that kind of shut off other things?
Yeah, I think I definitely learned to control my emotions a bit better and bring myself back down which I think is handy when it comes to racing because usually, it’s just the emotion before the race and once you get in to the race, it just sort of stops to, like everything goes pretty quickly.
So learning, women learning how to control emotions, that’s pretty cool, right?
Sometimes it doesn’t go down quite, sometimes they already don’t control it all but yeah, I think I’ve got it down better than a few other people.
That’s great. Boy, any guy listening to this, it’s just like, wow, I should get my girlfriend in to triathlon, right?
No, it’s definitely a muscle I think, your emotions are, things that you can choose to ignore, suppress or embrace and learn to channel and control a bit. Maybe you cannot control but to channel them in to positive. Sometimes when you’re angry, that’s a great emotion if you channel it right versus if you take it out on someone versus use it to motivate yourself to get better then anger can be great. And same thing with disappointment and even depression, I mean, every kind of emotion can either be good or bad based on what you do with them.
So we were talking a little bit before the show and you said one of your brothers was in the Australian Army or still is?
And I’m gonna go in to this coz I used to be in the army so a little sister, an older brother in the army, my sister could probably relate and he deployed, where did he deployed to?
So he’s up based in Doman and he’s, I think Afghanistan. Yeah, I don’t really know old finer details about it.
What is his job in the army?
As far as I know, he’s a tank commander so he’s a lieutenant.
He’s a cavalry officer, I know that, that was what I did. So you’re talking about why you think triathlon and army is a little bit similar, do you and your brother ever talked about the highs and the excitement and the fears of your respective professions?
I think we don’t talk about it directly but he’ll tell me things so he’s maybe commanding 4 tanks, he’s in one of them and he’s gonna make these split second decisions and if he makes a wrong decision then it can all just fall to pieces and I think that’s similar in triathlon so like you’re in a bike, obviously it’s not life or death on triathlon which I think is a bit of a difference but it’s just a split second decision and the adrenaline. And yeah, so I really respect what he does and I think he respects what I do because it’s definitely, I think you’ve got to be special sort of person to do both of those things.
Now that’s interesting because someone’s listening to this and maybe they don’t enjoy the racing part or they’re just getting in to triathlon wondering if they can do it. We’re talking about the life and death decision making of your brother and then you in triathlon getting, being, all these split second high pressure decisions and if someone was listening to this and not sure if they can do it, can you learn this, is this something that you can learn or is this just born or innate or where do you think that comes from?
I think you can learn it and I think that’s where the group environment sort of comes in. So I don’t remember ever having to make sort of split second decisions like I do now so I think if you put yourself in the right position and you try and experience having to make those split second decisions so you get them wrong sometimes, obviously, don’t try life or death straight away situations but yeah, I think it does just come with practice and so just got to, it sound a bit silly but sort of find your inner instinct sort of thing and I think, yeah, you learn.
So it’s inside of you but maybe modern life has depressed it or hidden it away?
And when did you start to feel like you were sharpening that decision making in racing and making good decisions versus maybe poor decisions?
To be honest, I’m still on the way. Sometimes I make some terrible decisions but I think now I realized soon that it’s a terrible decision and I can pick up exactly the point.
And I think one of the keys to triathlon is nothing is ever gonna go right in a race but learning how to react to those bad moments or wrong decisions and correct it is probably one of the most critical skills, right?
Yeah. So Jamie often puts us in, ensuing let’s say, okay, halfway down the pool, act like someone’s taking your goggles off, put your head down, kept you underwater for 5 seconds, like what are you gonna do, how you’re going to respond to that? And all sorts of things while midway through it, swimming session or at the beach and Jamie takes our goggles off so like if you just to, I think that’s where the training comes in and that’s how you can learn to make different decisions.
And so you do think it can be taught then?
And you’re still getting there.
So as you’re doing the sport now and you’re looking ahead, what is it all about for you, why do you think you’re spending the prime of your life athletically and your key developmental years too, what do you wanna do with it all when it’s said and done?
I think once, obviously I had my goals within the sport so everyone wants an Olympic Gold, it would be silly to have a goal lower than that. You have little goals along the way that sort of I’m still under 23 so I have those goals. After the sport you mean?
Yeah. Well, I mean, what would the pursuit of that goal mean for you, do for you whether regardless of whether or not you get it the rest of your life?
I think, for me, I think it’s teaching me to set goals, to work hard and to deal with obviously, we all have let downs and I just, I don’t know, I just think it’s a really good way to improve your life skills as a whole so just socially, just emotionally, athletically, I don’t know, mentally, it’s just everything about it I can say can be making me a better person and I think later on in life, that will definitely, hopefully get me somewhere good.
Do you have any things of ideas of what you wanna do after the sport specifically?
I’ve always wanted to be on like a show, we have this show in Australia called Get Away so you’re just a host and you go to all these destinations but…
So TV stuff?
This is, I was with dad once and I was at, I think it was a V8 Supercar so a race car series in Australia and New Zealand and we were there and I said to him, I just hate this because nobody knows who I am and he always remember that moment and it’s just, I just wanna be known to people, I don’t think in a bad way but I just always wanted to be known, I don’t know.
What do you wanna do with that fame that’s coming coz it’s coming, right?
Good things. I think a point always be involved in the sport. You see people like ???[0:22:52] she’s obviously commentating everything but we actually can approach her if we need and she’s sort of a mentor. Yeah, it’s hard to say no because so much can happen between now and then but I definitely think there are opportunities to stay involved.
Yeah. And I think that, I was talking to Barbara about this before as triathlon is a very selfish pursuit in her words because it’s all about you and you have to get sponsors to make a living in the sport, you have to put yourself out there but to give something back to the sport or to life afterwards with that, what do you do with that fame and that recognition and fan base that you’ve built. And do, right now, although you aren’t as known as you should be, as you wanna be, what is it like to have a fan base and interact with them and what are some of those moments like?
I actually had a moment last week where I’ve got, because I have a Facebook page and I had a message on there from man who said his friend Michael, he’s turning 40 and he loves you as a triathlete, he’s just getting in to triathlon, we’re doing a photo collage for his birthday, can you please write him a sign: Happy Birthday Michael and take a picture and send it to me? So that was my first sort of, of course I did it and I halfway didn’t and I wasn’t really sure like it’s kind of harmless and then actually just today, I got the, he showed me the finished product that he’s sending to his friend and Gwen had done it and there were a few ITU athletes among distance athletes and I think just little things like that, 2 minutes of my time to do it and yeah, I really enjoy sort of the satisfaction of doing something for other people even though all you get is the satisfaction of doing something for someone else.
Yeah, and that’s a pretty great gift for a guy may or may not decide to get in to the sport and he might be really motivated now…
… to get in to the sport and that’s great. And what do you see the role of you as a professional triathlete and other triathletes in the sport as, what do you see your role as obviously there to compete and pursue your own goals but what else are you there for regarding the development of the sport?
I think, when I go back home, sometimes the opportunity comes up with the up and coming programs, the younger triathletes and I think that’s just really important to go out of your way. I know it sounds so cliché to ensure that there’s up and coming kids who are enjoying the sport and having the access to, I suppose, I’m not the top athlete but athletes who do this for a living and I just think that’s really important to have that not just social media because we can do a lot of social media, you can put out Instagr.am post and Twitter and everything and people can watch it but I think when you get that opportunity to do face to face work, I think that’s important, yeah.
So you have fans but you don’t get to meet them enough, right?
Yeah, I mean, I sort of enjoy, as long as it’s after the race and everything and I don’t mind doing, I don’t even have as many fans as everyone else but I don’t mind getting pictures with people because, I don’t know, they seem happy about it so…
Yeah. Well, it’s good to know that what you’re doing is influencing other people and having a positive impact rather than just doing it for no reason. And what are your parents think, are they happy that you’re doing this path in life, do they miss you, do they want you to come home, what do you think, how’s the family feel about all this?
They support me 100% so as I said, last year, I had to stay home and I was pretty upset with that because I had to battle injuries and then I was home and I actually think when I found out that I was injured again, mom was kneeling in tears not because she’s pushing me to do it but because she knows how much it means to me and so I spoke to her yesterday on my birthday and they miss me and everything but I think they know this is what I wanna do and they’re actually jealous in not leaving and want to train.
And she was in tears but then she probably is very happy to take care of you for a year and see you again, right?
Yeah, I think it was a given, for the first few months, I don’t know how fun it was to me. But I think I ended up, I didn’t live with them the whole time because they don’t live in Wollongong, they live about an hour away, yeah, but I can always go home. They’re never saying come home or don’t do that it’s too hard, they always seem brave about me when I’m alright, I’m going out for 4 hours in the bike or dad’s like message me when you get back and everything but yeah, they sort of know what it’s about I suppose because, yeah, I think they know what it takes to be the best not they don’t mean world class but being competitive so it’s good to have them, yeah.
They understand the lifestyle.
So if you are able to help more people and develop this fan base and things like that, what will change about you or do you think anything will change or you’ll be able to keep grounded on that? Coz as a member of the Wizards, you’re gonna get better and have better results and do you think you can stay grounded? I mean, you’re around some of the top athletes in the world on the squad and what are your observations about success and how to deal with it?
Well having Gwen, I think she’s, I just live next door to her so to me, she’s just Gwen and I think that’s when you realize you can be the best but still, to me, she’s a normal person, she’s just Gwen, she goes about her daily life at training just like I do, she just runs and swims and bikes a lot faster. But, yeah, and I’ve come across a few top athletes so ???[0:29:38] who’s an Australian surfer, actually her old run coach is my old run coach and we did a few run sessions together and gym sessions together and she has her massive fan base as well but in Australia and surfing is huge and she’s one of the biggest, she’s one of the biggest surf comps and she just comes to training and she’s more than happy to socialize with all the kids at training. And yeah, so I think when you meet athletes like that, you realize that you can be the best and stay grounded and sort of who you surround yourself with I think plays a big role in that.
Yeah. And I think also having a great coach who can knock you down every time when you think you’re getting good, right?
Do you think you can do this without the squad?
No, I don’t think so. I mean, maybe I could but, yeah, that’s hard, I couldn’t really imagine not doing it with the squad, I probably just want another squad I suppose.
And there’s a lot of triathletes out there who do training without a squad and on the ITU and what’s a difference between the ITU versus the squad triathletes or the individual versus the squad athletes?
That’s a hard one because I don’t really spend that much time with, I mean, Aaron did sometimes comes and trains to this but, I mean, she’s just 14, just like normal…
The bronze medalist in 2012, yeah.
Yeah so, but yeah, that’s a difficult question. I just wouldn’t imagine, I have a lot of respect for the athletes who do it by themselves because I know sometimes if I didn’t have the others around me, I think I’d struggle a bit.
Yeah, it would be hard to get up every day and do your training.
Yeah. I think, well, last year, I could get up and I could do everything but I think when it gets down to the right prep and the right specific prep, it’s so much, I just see so much value in having all the other girls around me so…
Yeah, the intensity.
Well, you’re an Australian triathlete and soon to be personality, TV personality and other things, what else do you think you wanna get out of this whole journey, is it, do you think it’s more about the sport before or do you think afterwards based on what you’ve done on the sport you’re gonna be, what do you looking forward to the most, just doing the sport or do you have, you’re really looking forward to that post-career?
At the moment, just the sport, I just don’t want it to end so…
Do you think you’re gonna go Ironman after this, long course?
It could happen, yeah, it’s definitely not out of the question and I think that would be a very interesting experience in itself. I trained with a few, my physio is actually got an age group Ironman squad so I train with him back in Wollongong during the winter last year and I just don’t know how some of those guys do it, they have families, they have dogs in there, it’s insane.
Well that’s an interesting point, you’re getting paid to do this, it’s not a ton of money just yet but you’re getting paid and you have nothing really to worry about and then you look at the age groupers who are paying to do the sport a lot of money, who are fitting it in and doing their jobs in between all these long sessions. What do you think about the age group athletes in the sport and how dedicated they are and how quickly it’s growing, what does that say to you about what’s going on?
I think it’s a really, I’m amazed by them to be honest because, yeah, as I’ve said, they’re so passionate about the sport and I think that’s something I learned last year was yes, it’s about performing and becoming the best athlete in the world but then you sort of realize that they’re doing this because they have so much passion for the sport and if you can sort of taken some of that, I think it makes you probably, it’s easy to be successful and you sort of realize how lucky you are to be in the position because you love the sport, you get high I guess to do it and you get all these opportunities. And as they stable you, who would have been in your position but it’s still so satisfied whether, and their families, I’ve seen a few of their families and they just, the whole family is in to it like the whole family will go to a race and make it a holiday and I just think it’s really great for the sport.
Yeah. The age groupers are really pushing the sport and you think about triathlon, there’s not a lot of non-triathletes who watch the sport but all the age groupers are starting to pay more attention and that’s your fan base so as that grows then everyone benefits. And triathlon is like the new golf and one’s using bikes instead of golf clubs and a lot of the high powered, the funny thing about it is a lot of very, very high powered, high functioning, very successful people do triathlon and that’s their stress outlet, their social life a little bit and a much more healthy addiction than people who are in position to power might otherwise have, triathlon helps them avoid that so. Well Grace, last thing before we close up is young girls in Australia or America or wherever they happen to be who are thinking about going for it and doing what you’re doing, what advice would you have for someone thinking about becoming a professional triathlete no matter what their age?
I definitely think you just need to take risks, can be so scary so me coming in to the sport and just going overseas, I suppose it was a big risk like I haven’t been in the sports 6 months and I’ve decided to just go to the season, have a crack at it. And I think, again, it sounds cliché but you just got to remember why you do it, it’s not, obviously, winning is great but it’s about the processes and what you’ve learned to win and the enjoyment you get out of it. And yeah, I think it’s, you’ve really got to remember the reason why you wanna do it and make sure that’s sort of sustainable I suppose.
Well, you brought up a great point at the end there which is the process is rather than the outcome and I know that Jamie talks about that all the time. And if you forget about the results and you focus on what you know how to do and what you can control then the result will be better. Have you learned and internalize that yet or do you still think you’re a little bit too attached to the results sometimes?
So I think Jamie’s definitely taught me that from, like I never really thought about that before I started triathlon and it’s definitely, I find it really difficult because you as an athlete and I think what all we just have these goals but you’ve really got to set those little goals and focus on them to reach out fine one and I think that’s always a work in progress. If you got it down past, I suppose every result will be pretty good so…
And that ends on, I think one of my favorite points is most of the people listening to this are not professional triathletes but are obviously in to triathlon maybe doing a run or a ride while they’re listening to this. And I’m not a coach, I’m a former athlete, recovering triathlete, I like to call myself jokingly because I was totally addicted to it and probably got a little bit too wrapped up in the results and my goals rather than the journey and looking back, I wish I would had some of these advices from people like Jamie and Mark Allen who all are saying the same thing. And learning that it’s about the little things in match during the little details rather than always worrying about the big goals that you have and of course you’re driven and if you wouldn’t have that big goal like an Olympic medal, you wouldn’t be a pro or you’ll be lying if you said you didn’t have that goal. But to be obsessed about that and not get lots of little wins along the way and if you don’t win a race but you had a better process during the race and you know you’re one step closer and things are gonna go. And maybe you’re not doing that in triathlon yet but try it and if you get good at that, that could be something you could apply in jobs. Usually when you’re, poor relationships when you’re trying too hard for an outcome, you always mess things up whether if you forget about the outcome and your job or you’re going for that promotion or trying to get that girl to like you or whatever or improve your relationship, maybe you need to let go a little bit of the outcome and just focus on the little things that will get you there and that’s a great lesson, I love that parting thought you just gave to the age groupers.
So well Grace, thank you for taking the time to share your insights to the Triathlon Research Radio audience, I’m sure that they’re gonna enjoy this and share it and leave reviews on iTunes and all the other things that we want you guys to do. And also if you go to the blog, you can see transcripts and we’ve got some pictures from our training week in Wollongong and you can see some of the great photos of the Wizards training with Grace and those. And also just email us if you hear anything, suggestions and if you enjoyed this, please review it on iTunes and share it with your friends on social media. And then finally Triathlon Research listener, thank you for joining us and supporting this podcast and making it grow. We’ve got great audience right now, over 10,000 downloads so far this month in June and growing I think to be our best month ever and I’m sure that these podcasts with the Wizards, it’s gonna go lot more popular. So thanks again and please tune in for our next episode of Triathlon Research Radio.